The thing that I find so, sooo weird about the sexlessness of modern IP-driven sci-fi is that like... what, 50%? of the handmaidens of the genre are guys who became famous around Y2k for making sexy teen soaps for the WB. (J.J. Abrams and Matt Reeves, Kevin Williamson arguably, Greg Berlanti for sure, and also maybe that guy from "Roseanne," um, Josh Wharton?...)
A lot of other aspects of those films (the bad and the occasional good) can be explained as "they're TV guys working under TV constraints," but the sexlessness is just bizarre given that context.
Thanks so much! Your comments have been super great, always raising phenomenal points and angles.
Just a guess, but I think maybe the Hollywood cohort of hip nerds were always a little more secure, slick, connected, professional, and Maslows-maxxed than true nerd outcasts, who really have to fester in their loneliness for awhile. (I'm thinking in particular of guys like Patrick Rothfuss and Ernest Cline: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwNOzWXb7RE). Among the Hollywood nerd subgroup, there might be less of a deep psychological need to manifest power fantasies, including sexual ones, into the work.
Plus, I think the core fantasies of modern genre media -- that it's a big toybox for cool action figures in cool costumes -- gets planted way before a kid's sexual identity starts to form, and is more primal and deeply-held in that way. We're also in an era when people's fantasies are becoming increasingly atomized, individualized, non-sexual, and consumerist. I'm thinking in particular about how many women went full Barbiecore last year -- same slick, corporate IP sensibilities, but in pink -- a trend totally defined by its detachment from men (Barbie decides she doesn't want a relationship with Ken; boys are a gross, foreign other!). Speaking of WB! They even gave Snyder a heads-up about that joke about how no women in her right mind would *ever* care about Justice League. (https://variety.com/2023/film/news/zack-snyder-barbie-joke-funny-insane-1235821196/)
I also think a lot of the nerd guys have just mellowed out in the grand Xennial fashion as well, plus the shift in fandom culture when conventions suddenly became this family thing that you as a Nerd Dad needed to feel OK taking your daughters to. Which is good.
At first I thought you were giving this film more attention and critical thought than it deserves, but you've convinced me that there were tiny fragments of genius there. Could the director's cut be as much an improvement upon the initial release as Blade Runner's was? I'm not optimistic, to be honest. It sounds like Snyder was given carte blanche here; he wasn't shackled by studio executive philistines. And a lot of weird, nonconventional stuff DID make it into the initial release. My guess is that Snyder's ambition reached beyond his artistic ability/experience
Do you know if the novelization expounds on the Freudian life drive vs death drive themes at all? Because if there is something "there" there, I think Snyder would have made sure it got into the novelization
"Blade Runner" is a high bar! But I'm hoping it's at least as good/enjoyable as a solid 80s popcorn movie
I probably should have better communicated that Snyder was indeed given complete freedom, but that the urge/conditioning to make franchise-type content inevitably crept into Rebel Moon and swallowed it.
One thing that fascinates me is the complete absence of the "Queen" that's mentioned. She never appears with the King in flashbacks, though the ur-feminine aspect of the galaxy seems very important to the Imperium ("The Motherworld," the vulviform portals). Did she have some sort of power that was absorbed/stolen by the King? And again, a good movie would actually *raise* these questions and not require us to retroactively piece together what questions we should even be asking. I'll try to get the novel from the library and report back!
Oh I wasn't suggesting that this could be as good as Blade Runner. Just that Blade Runner is a movie that had a pretty bad theatrical release but then had a fantastic directors' cut. So that's our model if we're trying to be optimistic about rebel moon :P
The thing that I find so, sooo weird about the sexlessness of modern IP-driven sci-fi is that like... what, 50%? of the handmaidens of the genre are guys who became famous around Y2k for making sexy teen soaps for the WB. (J.J. Abrams and Matt Reeves, Kevin Williamson arguably, Greg Berlanti for sure, and also maybe that guy from "Roseanne," um, Josh Wharton?...)
A lot of other aspects of those films (the bad and the occasional good) can be explained as "they're TV guys working under TV constraints," but the sexlessness is just bizarre given that context.
Thanks so much! Your comments have been super great, always raising phenomenal points and angles.
Just a guess, but I think maybe the Hollywood cohort of hip nerds were always a little more secure, slick, connected, professional, and Maslows-maxxed than true nerd outcasts, who really have to fester in their loneliness for awhile. (I'm thinking in particular of guys like Patrick Rothfuss and Ernest Cline: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LwNOzWXb7RE). Among the Hollywood nerd subgroup, there might be less of a deep psychological need to manifest power fantasies, including sexual ones, into the work.
Plus, I think the core fantasies of modern genre media -- that it's a big toybox for cool action figures in cool costumes -- gets planted way before a kid's sexual identity starts to form, and is more primal and deeply-held in that way. We're also in an era when people's fantasies are becoming increasingly atomized, individualized, non-sexual, and consumerist. I'm thinking in particular about how many women went full Barbiecore last year -- same slick, corporate IP sensibilities, but in pink -- a trend totally defined by its detachment from men (Barbie decides she doesn't want a relationship with Ken; boys are a gross, foreign other!). Speaking of WB! They even gave Snyder a heads-up about that joke about how no women in her right mind would *ever* care about Justice League. (https://variety.com/2023/film/news/zack-snyder-barbie-joke-funny-insane-1235821196/)
I also think a lot of the nerd guys have just mellowed out in the grand Xennial fashion as well, plus the shift in fandom culture when conventions suddenly became this family thing that you as a Nerd Dad needed to feel OK taking your daughters to. Which is good.
At first I thought you were giving this film more attention and critical thought than it deserves, but you've convinced me that there were tiny fragments of genius there. Could the director's cut be as much an improvement upon the initial release as Blade Runner's was? I'm not optimistic, to be honest. It sounds like Snyder was given carte blanche here; he wasn't shackled by studio executive philistines. And a lot of weird, nonconventional stuff DID make it into the initial release. My guess is that Snyder's ambition reached beyond his artistic ability/experience
Do you know if the novelization expounds on the Freudian life drive vs death drive themes at all? Because if there is something "there" there, I think Snyder would have made sure it got into the novelization
"Blade Runner" is a high bar! But I'm hoping it's at least as good/enjoyable as a solid 80s popcorn movie
I probably should have better communicated that Snyder was indeed given complete freedom, but that the urge/conditioning to make franchise-type content inevitably crept into Rebel Moon and swallowed it.
One thing that fascinates me is the complete absence of the "Queen" that's mentioned. She never appears with the King in flashbacks, though the ur-feminine aspect of the galaxy seems very important to the Imperium ("The Motherworld," the vulviform portals). Did she have some sort of power that was absorbed/stolen by the King? And again, a good movie would actually *raise* these questions and not require us to retroactively piece together what questions we should even be asking. I'll try to get the novel from the library and report back!
Oh I wasn't suggesting that this could be as good as Blade Runner. Just that Blade Runner is a movie that had a pretty bad theatrical release but then had a fantastic directors' cut. So that's our model if we're trying to be optimistic about rebel moon :P